Skip to main content

Brandon Saho

Get ready for another impactful Art of Sway episode, where the influence of sports, media, and personal experiences converge, as host Danielle Wiley sits down with Brandon Saho, a former sports reporter turned mental wellness advocate and content creator. In this conversation, Brandon shares his own transformative journey of grappling with mental health struggles, casting light on the often-overlooked challenges athletes and creators face behind the scenes.

Brandon and Danielle explore how athletes are breaking the stigma around mental health, creating a ripple effect of positive change in the sports industry. With insights into the influence of social media on our mental landscapes, this episode helps reveal the psychological price of public life — and the courage it takes to open up.

You’ll also learn about the hidden strains of curating online personas, the mental battles faced by reality TV stars, and the impact of the Name, Image, and Likeness movement on college athletes. Plus, don’t miss Brandon’s ingenious plan for enjoying a free Taylor Swift concert in Cincinnati!

Episode 42: Brandon Saho

Danielle Wiley: Welcome to The Art of Sway, the podcast that uncovers the power of influence and its impact on all areas of our lives. I’m your host, Danielle Wiley. Each week we’ll explore the many facets of influence through candid conversations with industry insiders, from brand marketers to social workers, educators, leaders, and more. Let’s dive in.

Danielle Wiley: Sports reporter Brandon Saho created The Mental Game podcast after his own battle with depression and suicide. Now he hosts emotional interviews with athletes, musicians, and celebrities to help break the stigma around mental health. The Mental Game guests include NFL legend Ricky Williams, The Office star Kate Flannery, Bengal’s head coach Zach Taylor, Love Is Blind star Deepti Vempati, and many more. Saho’s mission is to save lives with impactful conversations about depression, anxiety, and mental health. Mental health has likely always been an area of concern for those in the public eye, but we are now finally giving creators and athletes the space to admit that and lead dialogue about it. Brandon Saho has become a true leader in this space. I so admire his honesty and openness about his own journey and all of the work he’s doing to elevate other voices. Please enjoy.

Danielle Wiley: I know a little bit about your journey just from prepping for this conversation, but it would be great if you could share with our listeners just a little bit about your journey from sports reporter to podcast host of The Mental Game and how you got from there to here and what that kind of personal and career journey has been like.

Brandon Saho: Yeah. My dream was to always be a sports reporter, and I got to live out that dream in my hometown actually covering Cincinnati Bengals, Cincinnati Reds, and just live out that childhood dream of reporting all my favorite teams. And it was a dream come true, but unfortunately during the best time for me professionally where the Bengals are going to the Super Bowl in 2021, personally I was going through hell. And for those three months during the playoffs, I had lost three family members. The woman that I thought I was going to marry left me and I was suicidal for three months. And so I kind of just hid behind that smile on TV every night and eventually couldn’t take it anymore. Had to check myself into a mental health hospital in Cincinnati. And I’m so thankful that I did because it saved my life. And once I started telling my story, I realized that it helps if you speak up.

Brandon Saho: And so I put out a letter saying, this is what I’m going through. This is why I haven’t been on TV the last couple of weeks. And the responses that I got were incredible from just saying “I had no idea” to, “I feel the same way” to, “I’m going to go check myself in now” or “I’m going to start going to therapy because of this post”. And when I saw that, it just kind of clicked in my head, all right, I’m just this little sports reporter from Cincinnati. What if I get some of the NFL players I know or reach out to your celebrities, musicians, influencers, and get them to start talking about mental health. And that’s kind of where The Mental Game was born and I hadn’t seen anything like that up there. So it’s been I think eight, nine months now and it’s been an incredible journey so far.

Danielle Wiley: That’s awesome. I spent quite a bit of time listening to episodes over the weekend and I just love what you’re doing, and it got me really excited to talk to you and learn more about all of this.

Brandon Saho: Well, thank you. That means a lot to me.

Danielle Wiley: Oh good. So I just would love to talk a little bit just about mental health and substance abuse awareness in general because I know based on some of your more recent episodes, you’re also over a hundred days sober, so it’s not just about the mental health, there’s also sobriety in there. Just from what I’ve seen anecdotally and just through the media that I consume, I feel like mental health conversations and just sobriety discussions are a lot more acceptable now. I think sobriety in particular seems to be having a moment, whether it’s people who are sober curious or full-out sober, and just would love to hear your thoughts about where we’re at right now in this moment in time in terms of perception about those issues.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, it’s crazy to think back. And I talk about this all the time, but I never talked about mental health in school ever. I graduated college in 2015, so not that long ago, but grade school, high school, college, not a single word of it was ever brought up. And that was just kind of weird to think back on because when I was checked into this mental health hospital, not to downplay the amazing work they do because it’s incredible and it saves lives, but some of it’s not rocket science, it’s just we’ve never been taught it before. And so that’s one of the biggest takeaways I’ve had. But it becoming more acceptable to talk about, I think really is the only good thing that came out of 2020 in the COVID-19 pandemic because everybody was forced to face their mental health. For me, my job changed. There was no sports, I couldn’t do what I love anymore.

Brandon Saho: I couldn’t go to bars, I couldn’t go hang out with friends. Life was shut down, not just for me but for everyone. So I think that helped kind of break the stigma even more is the fact that every single person in the world was experiencing some of those same feelings. So over the last three, four years, seeing it change and be more acceptable to talk about has been encouraging. But I think there’s still a long way to go. When it comes to the sober side of things, my therapist had told me that I needed to quit drinking for probably two years, and I just said, there’s no way I can. I don’t know if I’m ready to call myself an alcoholic yet. I went out like crazy just because I hated that feeling of being alone sitting at home. But then I would take myself out to dinner, have drinks by myself, and then I still feel alone that way.

Brandon Saho: So it was kind of like a double-edged sword of what kind of a alone do you want to feel? Like the sobriety, seeing how accepting it is, it’s crazy. The same bars I go to or the rare occasion, I’ll go to a club or go to some nice dinner. They have my Powerade, they have my lemonade, and it’s not even a question anymore. And I think maybe it helps a little bit that I have a platform where people already know that I’m sober coming into the situation. But it’s been really cool to have those conversations and realize there’s way more people that are sober and have gone through the same shitty experiences as you for years feeling hungover and dealing with your mental health and it being a coverup for all of that than you think.

Brandon Saho: I think the one, or couple, that motivated me where I heard Jack Harlow the rapper talk about how when his last album came out, is he going to pop bottles, is he going to celebrate at the club? He’s like, “Yeah, I’m going to go out and celebrate, but I’m not drinking. I don’t think I have a drinking problem, but this is my time to really achieve my dream and I don’t want to miss out on that opportunity.”

Brandon Saho: That and then Theo Vaughn the comedian is what really hit me. He was talking with Logic the rapper on an episode of his podcast. Theo was asked why he thinks he can’t drink or party anymore. And he goes, “Well, I just don’t want to miss this interview or F up and miss a show this weekend.” And I found myself out until three, four in the morning, and then almost missing shows that I was doing or interviews. And it’s like, you get one shot at this. And I’ve done that for seven, eight years because I’ve been single and depressed and just wanted to go out to distract myself. And I just got tired of it, and now I think next week will be five months, which is crazy.

Danielle Wiley: Awesome. Congratulations.

Brandon Saho: Thank you. And that’s something I never thought I could do, but I don’t know if I’ll ever go back to drinking. I don’t want to put that pressure on myself, but it’s just seeing the other side of things, it really just puts it in perspective.

Danielle Wiley: It was interesting to me. It’s interesting to me to hear you mention Jack Harlow and other just more well-known people and celebrities and how they influenced you from a sobriety perspective. I’d love to talk about the roles of influencers and influence when it comes to sobriety and when it comes to mental health. I feel like it seems to be growing. I know I’m in a couple sober curious groups on Facebook and elsewhere, and I feel like everyone I know listened to the Andrew Huberman podcast about alcohol and the dangers of alcohol and there’s just a lot. Sober lit is a whole thing right now, and just there’s so much conversation about it. So I was curious to know what your thoughts are on it. I think I kind of know because you mentioned some people who influenced you, but it definitely seems to be growing. It’s almost becoming its own category.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, no, it is. It’s crazy to me that sober is cool now, which sounds weird to say out loud, but you always remember when somebody would walk into a party in a bar, and I even did this as short as a year ago of like, oh, you’re not drinking? All right, that person’s probably an alcoholic. Or maybe that’s weird that they don’t want to have a drink with you. And now that I’m on the other side of it, you just feel better about yourself in general. There are times where you want to have a drink. For the most part, you’re happier, you’re more energetic, you want to go work out, you want to be more productive, you want to be better at your work, whatever it is that makes you happy. And I think that’s why so many people are choosing to do it.

Brandon Saho: And on the celebrity influencer side, what I’ve realized is one, just in general, they’re no different than you and I. And so their mental health stories, but also their stories with alcohol and drugs are very relatable where they’ve had the same depression or anxiety that’s caused them to go out for years and years and have those party nights or that’s part of the lifestyle they’re supposed to be living, and they were just tired of crashing and burning. Listening to Jack Harlow, Theo Vaughn, more and more. You just dig in, it’s crazy to listen to how many people are sober because they have that same experience as I did and many people did, where you’re just tired of feeling hungover and crashing. Doing stuff that you really don’t want to do, but you just do because you don’t know where else to take your mental health or just your thoughts.

Brandon Saho: So it being accepted by a wide range of people from celebrity to everyday Joe Smith, I think it’s grown a lot. I’m obviously new to the game of being sober, but it’s definitely shocked me about how accepting everyone’s been towards me that isn’t sober. And then also the community that’s out there where it’s way bigger and way more common than I think. And obviously, celebrities and influencers and athletes makes it more acceptable to the everyday person because they see this person with all this power, money, fame, whatever they want to have, is saying “I’m good on drinking”, I think that changes the perspective of it too.

Danielle Wiley: Yeah, absolutely. On that note, I’m curious about just awareness of mental health issues as they pertain to the sports space. And I’m wondering if you think that things are really changing, and are fans and teammates and managers and owners more open to prioritizing mental health of pro athletes? Because I feel like for a long time it was like, just suck it up. This is what you do. You’re being paid a lot of money. I don’t want to hear your sob story about all the troubles that you’re going through. And I feel like we’ve really hit a turning point lately where that’s not okay to say anymore.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, no, it has completely changed in sports just like it has in life where you’re taught, especially as a boy growing up, just rub dirt on it, go back out there and figure it out, keep playing. And in pro sports and college sports, they’ve invested heavily in mental health and a team psychiatrist or psychologist, and mental health coaches. Because like I said before, everyone is going through something no matter if you’re Joe Burrow on the Bengals who is this big giant superstar, but he hates the fame, but he realizes it’s something that he got to deal with and that’s probably giving him anxiety, all the way to different musicians and actors and actresses. It’s crazy that things have changed this much, but it’s great. I’ll give you an example of Rick Williams, NFL legend running back. He smoked weed when he played because it helped him deal with his anxiety.

Brandon Saho: He got absolutely tore up in the papers and on TV failing drug tests, which he did because marijuana wasn’t approved by the league at that point or you couldn’t use it recreationally across America. It helped him with his mental health and just nobody gave a shit. Nobody cared that this was kind of his outlet. And so that affected his mental health. And when I did an interview with him in LA eight months ago, I met him and this was not even the guy that I remember because of who he was portrayed by the media and by fans. So that’s kind of just one example of how mental health has affected athletes with the stigma of can you even speak about it now?

Brandon Saho: Now it’s so amazing to hear Dak Prescott, the quarterback for the Cowboys, he lost a sibling to suicide. And he’s talked about being I think suicidal and being depressed. And so the fact that he can speak up on it now is so incredible that that’s accepted. And I feel like it’s kind of been a ripple effect throughout sports because the bigger the athlete, the more people and other athletes are going to feel comfortable speaking up. But it definitely has been way more accepted now than even when I started as a sports reporter eight years ago. I mean, shoot, before Covid I feel like we weren’t even talking about it.

Danielle Wiley: Yeah, and it’s so great for other athletes and then it’s also great for fans. Because to your point, going back to the whole sobriety discussion, seeing that someone you admire and respect and who is so successful is going through this and having these issues, it kind of makes it feel like it’s okay for you to acknowledge it yourself and get the help that you need. So I think it helps so many people for it to be more out in the open.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, no doubt. And it’s relatable. That’s what you want to feel, someone else is going through your story, has the same story as you. I think that is the most powerful thing when it comes to mental health, is being able to feel relatable or realize the people that you love or that you idolize are relatable to you.

Danielle Wiley: It’s kind of funny jumping from people you idolized to this discussion, but so confession time, I’m a huge Love Is Blind fan. It’s totally my guilty pleasure. So I was very excited to see that you had an interview with Deepti from season two of Love Is Blind. And I listened to it and it was super interesting to me as a fan, but also because I think there’s been a lot of discussion about mental health of creators and she’s really become a creator now. She’s making her living, she wrote a book, she goes out speaking, that’s kind of her gig. And I’ve been in the creator and influencer industry for a long time. I’ve had this company for over 12 years, have been working in the influencer space for way longer than that. And certainly, pressures on creators are so much higher now than they used to be.

Danielle Wiley: There’s so many more platforms and people looking at you and focus and attention and pressure, and I’m just wondering what kind of parallels you see between creator mental health and athlete mental health. And if you have, just from what you’ve been through and all the amazing conversations that you have with athletes, if there’s any guidance that you might have with creators who are struggling? While the pressures are higher than ever and I think mental health is a big issue, I don’t know that it’s as accepted yet for creators to kind of come out and speak about this as it has slowly become for athletes.

Brandon Saho: Well, number one with Deepti, she’s an amazing person and that conversation was incredible and we still keep in touch and text all the time. It’s really cool that I’ve got to know her. And after that episode, I know we talked about a little bit on the episode, but we actually talked about our own relationships for, I don’t know, probably 30, 45 minutes just trying to help each other out as good people. It was kind of cool breaking that down, but she’s an amazing person. But you’re right, trying to figure out how to deal with that pressure. I mean, I’m going to use her for an example because we talked about her. This is somebody that worked a normal everyday job and then went on Love Is Blind and became an internet celebrity, influencer, creator overnight.

Brandon Saho: Obviously you know that going into it, but your life changes of being able to go grab coffee to having a million followers and then somebody sees you. She used this example with me of she’s out to lunch with her friend and somebody got video of it and then the next thing she knows it’s on TMZ and TikTok with 50,000 views because they think she’s dating somebody or something like that. And you know that going into it, but it can still affect your mental health and it’s tough on somebody that maybe wasn’t expecting that through life. There is a lot of pressure, and I think it is the creator space and athletes space very parallel because there’s pressures to perform. Everyone’s watching you all the time.

Brandon Saho: You have high stakes in front of you, whether it’s winning a big playoff game or putting out an interview that you hope is going to go get traction and get likes and subscribers and I’m experiencing that now. I feel more pressure on me now ever than I did as a sports supporter because as a creator you’re like, it’s all on you. If this fails, which is part of the reason why I stopped drinking, is if it fails, it’s on me. There’s no team, there’s no big network supporting me like there was when I was a sports supporter.

Brandon Saho: And so I think it is very, very similar in the creator space and the athlete space now that I’ve heard talking with different musicians and influencers and comedians because it’s 24/7. You have pressure all the time and people can say whatever they want to you and send you messages and email you. I don’t know how the women that I used to work with in TV, how they stayed sane with their mental health because of the types of Facebook messages they would get, emails. It was tearing apart body, looks, men hitting on them when they didn’t want them to. People that are in the spotlight, even at a local TV news level have to deal with so much that people don’t see.

Danielle Wiley: It was funny, we were watching, I have this obsession with local news, that I find myself talking about more than I probably should, because it’s a little bit weird, but I love it. And I live in the Detroit area now, but moved here from the Bay Area. And the Bay Area, I’ve liked the local news in San Francisco a lot better than I like the local news in Detroit. And I was talking to my husband this morning and I was like, it’s just like they have to be so fake in Detroit. They can’t acknowledge when the B roll just doesn’t match or something’s completely… They’re reporting on something that’s just obviously super ridiculous. In San Francisco, they were allowed to roll their eyes or be like, what is happening on the screen right now while I’m saying… they could be real people, but in Detroit, it’s still this whole fake “oh oh oh”  talking about it.

Danielle Wiley: And so he started researching all of the reporters and anchor people from Detroit and he was finding all these gossip sites about the Detroit anchorwoman that we see every morning who, again, I don’t love. But crazy that there’s gossip sites about her and Twitter threads and people going into their personal life. And you get into this industry, whether it’s being on TV or being a creator online or being an athlete because you have this talent or this skill or some kind of creativity that you want to express. And suddenly that goes hand in hand with opening yourself up to being attacked online or being skewered or having your personal life be spied on or people conjecturing about what’s going on with you. And it’s kind of unfair that just because you have this skill and this desire to share that with the world, that there’s this whole kind of negative underbelly to it all.

Brandon Saho: I don’t know how Justin Bieber has done it for his whole life. I know we’re talking about local TV, but him or I just had Danielle Bradbury on my show who won The Voice when she was 16 and got a record deal and has been famous now since she was 16. I’m not close to being where they’re at, but I’m 29 and it’s still weird when people come up and say hey to me or get some random message about my show or what I do. I’ve learned to not let things affect me where you get tweets and different emails and it’s like, yeah, whatever. I don’t really care. They used to bother me at the beginning and now it’s like I know who I am and people that appreciate me for me, and that’s all I really care about.

Danielle Wiley: Yeah, I think everyone always says don’t read the comments. Don’t read the reviews, don’t read the comments, just stay the course.

Brandon Saho: It’s so hard.

Danielle Wiley: Yeah, it is really hard. It’s really hard.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, you talk about just how crazy to read things online. You’re making me think about different stories. I was working in Louisiana and I was dating another TV reporter. There was a fan website of a sports team down there that had a debate and I go on there to try to figure out, see different tips and see what they’re talking about with players and stuff. But there was a forum talking about who was the hotter newswoman, the girl I was dating or somebody else. And three weeks go by, and I didn’t say anything to the woman I was dating at the time. And she’s like, “Have I ever popped up on that site?” Just joking. And I’m like, yeah, this is what it is. And it’s like watching her take that hit or feel how weird it is to be talked about like that. It’s just an example of, like I said, everyone deals with it, but women in particular, men would send pictures of themselves. Just emailing to TV station emails. What are we doing? It’s so crazy to me.

Danielle Wiley: I don’t remember if I’ve told this story in the podcast, I told it to someone recently, but one of my first jobs was at the Food Network back when it was just 50 people working there. This was in the nineties. And one of my jobs was opening the fan mail and sorting it out to distribute to the chefs. And Emeril at that time was like, you’re speaking of Louisiana, he was like this rising star. And he’d get naked photo, like printed photos. They had the photos developed of this one lady. I remember she’d always pose in front of her backyard fence on her chase lounge. People are crazy.

Brandon Saho: That’s wild. That’s insane to think about actually developing the picture and printing it out and mailing it.

Danielle Wiley: And then sending it to a network.

Brandon Saho: To a stranger at their place of work. This went off the walls. I’m sorry.

Danielle Wiley: No, that’s what makes this fun, right? Although it’s kind of related, I want to talk a little bit about NIL because it’s changed so much about college athletics. And I think when you’re talking about college, and I’m the mom of two of them, but any college student has so much going on and they’re figuring out who they are. And are they a party animal or not, and who do they want to date and what kind of life do they want to have? And it’s such a crazy formative time of life. And then you add the athletics onto that and you have all of those pressures and what your coach expects of you and how you have to live your life. And then to add NIL on top of that, well, I think the ruling is great and I’m thrilled for these kids to be making even a fraction of the money that their schools are making off of them.

Danielle Wiley: That adds just a whole other layer of pressure. And in talking to them, it’s a lot. Like, oh, hey, now not only do you have to post to your stories and Instagram, but you also have to post to your feed even though you don’t want to because people might be researching you and trying to figure out if they want to work with you, and make sure you’re not posting too many bikini shots. And there’s this whole new, on top of everything else they have going on just being a college student, having the academics and then having the athletes, and now suddenly you have to be sponsor friendly. I feel like it creates a lot of risk from a mental health perspective. And I’m just curious to hear your take on that.

Brandon Saho: I am a big fan of NIL because I feel like the college athletes should be able to make money off their name, image, and likeness. And I also saw working in college athletics, the dirty money that went on, and how a lot of these kids, there were a lot of people make money. Let me say that. For the last, it’s been going on all across the country for 30, 40, 50 years where your favorite player on your star team, I guarantee it might not be as much as the big schools, but I guarantee he was getting some kickback or she was getting some kickback. So I think it’s good for them to be able to make money legally. And some of the really cool things that have happened are kids being able to be set for life or be able to start a business from the NIL side of their athletics.

Brandon Saho: On the flip side, it does add to the mental health side of things, the pressure of what deals do I take, what do I don’t take, how much do I have to post, what can I post? I’m just using this as an example, but unless there’s some viral story to it, the women’s lacrosse goalie isn’t going to make anywhere close to the football running back. And so I feel bad for the athletes that aren’t making anything close, if anything at all, to those high-level athletes because that does affect your mental health. And you realize, and you don’t have probably the mental awareness at that point to realize that it’s not fair. I mean, you realize it’s not fair, but that’s how life is, that’s how business is.

Brandon Saho: And so for me, I watch programs that I think aren’t even impacting people or helping people nearly as close as what I’m doing now, getting like 30 million times more views and I’m like mad at it, but I got to imagine that’s how some of these athletes feel when the star quarterback or center on the basketball team is getting, I don’t know, I’m just going to guess, a hundred, 200, $300,000 in deals for a year, and you’re still on the meal plan that’s given to you by the school and you can’t afford to go out to dinner. It’s good and bad, just like everything in life. There’s good to it and there’s bad. And so I think the NCAA is trying to figure out how to regulate it a little bit better because at the beginning, it was just a free for all. I don’t think that’s right. But also not having a way to regulate it, you have to have that.

Danielle Wiley: Getting back to what you said about the women’s lacrosse, I think even within the women’s sports space, if you look at the top-earning sports for NIL, within women, it’s the one where they’re wearing bikinis. So the lacrosse player might be absolutely amazing, or the soccer player might be absolutely amazing, but their outfit’s not as sexy as a volleyball player or gymnastics. So there’s that whole weird sexism, sex appeal thing, undercurrent, going on as well, which is, as the mother of a 21-year-old, it’s terrifying to think of any extra pressure from that perspective being put on young women.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, no, I agree. It’s interesting to look at, because I’ll say this, so I used to cover LSU gymnastics, I don’t know Livy Dunne, but I know a lot of people in that program. I know a lot of the girls that competed for her or maybe with her while she was just getting started as a freshman. And so I don’t know behind the scenes about her life and her NIL deals, but I know pretty much everything that goes on around the LSU gymnastics program. And so I think programs have to be cautious of how they approach things too. And I think LSU’s done a really good job of trying to make it about the sport, but also letting Livy do her stuff on social media. And I mean, she’s a millionaire, I’m pretty sure. But you’re right, it’s different between certain sports because of how the athletes are looked upon or their looks or the uniforms, things like that, or what school they’re at.

Brandon Saho: It’s created, I think probably, and I’m trying to make sure I say this the right way, I think it’s probably created what everyone in the world has already known about the world of business and advertising and media. And now it’s just being put at the forefront for the NIL because you have certain athletes making millions of dollars and they’ve earned it and they’re working their ass off to get it. But then you also have athletes that feel like they’re equally as qualified to earn a living like that, that aren’t getting any deals. So it’s just a weird tightrope to walk.

Danielle Wiley: So this has been amazing, and I’m so glad we connected and I had you on, and I know you used to start one of your podcasts with the question. We end ours with a question that we ask everyone, and that’s what was the last thing that you were influenced to either buy or read, listen to, or watch?

Brandon Saho: Taylor Swift is going to be in Cincinnati in two days, and I am not buying $30,000 tickets to go see her. But we have a boat and the Bengal Stadium is along the river. So I have been influenced to go take the boat out and be a Swifty for the night because she is a once-in-a-generation talent and I love her message and the way that her fans are passionate. So I feel like I have to go, I’d be stupid if I didn’t. Now I’m not going to spend literally $4,000 to get into the stadium or whatever the lowest ticket is, but I think that’ll be a really cool experience. And I did the same thing with Justin Bieber about a year ago where he was performing. I got last-minute tickets in the 10th row for maybe like $200. And it was incredible to see somebody that is that talented, that influential, and cares about mental health and people feeling good and making them happy. So yeah, I think I’ll give you that answer because I literally just made that decision two days ago.

Danielle Wiley: That’s awesome. Well, I grew up on Long Island near Jones Beach Amphitheater, and I couldn’t afford to go to all the shows I wanted to go when I was in high school, but I still have super fond memories of laying on the beach with my friends listening to Fleetwood Mac from our beach towel. You could hear it, like we put our beach towels down even though it was pitch black out and you could hear everything perfectly. And I would argue that that was a better experience than going in and seeing the show, Like hearing Taylor Swift from a boat sounds way more fun to me. No offense to the Swifties out there. That sounds awesome.

Brandon Saho: Yeah, I’m very excited. It’ll be super cool.

Danielle Wiley: Awesome. Well, this was great. Thank you so much again, and I’m so glad that we’re connected. And maybe you can loop me in your text chat with Deepti for a moment.

Brandon Saho: Yes, I’ll get you in the group chat with Deepti and then we can answer all the questions and gossip. But yeah, thank you so much. This has been awesome and a really fun convo.

Danielle Wiley: Thank you for listening. Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe. Please check back next Monday for a new episode featuring candid conversations that explore the power of influence. I am your host, Danielle Wiley, and this is The Art of Sway.