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Cheri Alexander

Looking to level up your personal growth and leadership skills? Dive into this Art of Sway episode with Cheri Alexander (, a powerhouse former C-suite executive now rocking the world of education. Get the inside scoop on her unique mentorship style, used to empower 250k+ Coursera students, and soak up her expert wisdom on harnessing people skills, the art of adaptability in the corporate realm, and the ever-crucial mantra of embracing change.

In this episode, host Danielle Wiley talks with Cheri Alexander, a seasoned leader in cost-effective digital learning solutions and a recognized expert in innovative global talent management. With engaging anecdotes and insightful thoughts on mentorship and leadership, Cheri offers an fascinating exploration of her impact on over 250,000 global learners through Coursera, as well as through her role as faculty member at the University of Michigan Ross School of Business Executive Education Department.

Their discussion extends further to the intrinsic importance of emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills, and adaptability in business leadership — skillsets that Cheri believes are crucial for the new generation entering the workforce.

Don’t miss this uplifting episode, which includes:

  • Why self-awareness is a critical foundational element for personal success
  • The reason leaders need to create visions — and ensure people are following them
  • Why women tend to have superior interpersonal skills, as well as listening and multitasking skills
  • What the most important element of any job is
  • How to get ahead by saying yes more than saying no
  • The 5 most important aspects in top talent: why ability, agility, aspiration, emotional intelligence, and engagement are critical to moving up in the world

About our guest: Cheri Alexander is a multi-talented professional with a diverse 33-year career spanning roles as an engineer, C-suite executive, educator, and executive coach. She’s currently a Faculty Member in Management and Organizations at the University of Michigan Ross School of Business Executive Education Department.

Cheri had a global tenure at General Motors, managing wide-ranging functions for hundreds of thousands of employees across multiple countries. Now an award-winning educator, she teaches various courses and is set to lead the Ross School International Program. Cheri has co-designed popular online courses on Coursera, reaching over 250,000 learners globally. She’s a certified executive leadership coach, serving on several boards, and holds multiple degrees from prestigious institutions including the University of Michigan and MIT.

Episode 35: Cheri Alexander

Danielle Wiley: Welcome to The Art Of Sway, the podcast that uncovers the power of influence and its impact on all areas of our lives. I’m your host, Danielle Wiley. Each week we’ll explore the many facets of influence through candid conversations with industry insiders, from brand marketers to social workers, educators, leaders, and more. Let’s dive in.

Danielle Wiley: Cheri Alexander is an industrial environmental health engineer, former C-suite executive, university educator, board member, and recognized expert in innovative global talent management and leader development strategies. Throughout her 33 year multi-functional global career with General Motors, she lived in four countries on three continents, beginning in engineering, then leading human capital management, as well as plant operations, quality, and transformation initiatives For over 300,000 employees across 51 countries. As an award-winning educator and certified executive coach, Cheri is recognized for developing hundreds of current and future global leaders. Cheri’s at the forefront of innovative human capital management and leader development strategy. Currently, she teaches talent management, leadership, succession planning, mergers and acquisitions and HCM topics for executive education clients, as well as her classes for undergraduates. In the fall of 2023, she assumes responsibility for the raw school international program, overseeing and teaching over 300 BBA students studying abroad.

Danielle Wiley: As a leader in cost effective digital learning solutions, Cheri has successfully harnessed technology to improve human performance. She has co-designed and taught popular online global courses on Coursera, including leading people and teams, emotional intelligence, cultivating immensely human interactions, and reigniting engagement, which have reached over 250,000 learners globally. She has been invited to design two more courses that are currently in production, personal branding, and human capital management. She is also a certified executive leadership coach and specializes in coaching C-suite executives. Cheri’s on the board of the Inform Center for Leadership and served on the boards of the Henry Ford Health System, the Potter Park Zoo, CEDPA, a former Washington based nonprofit dedicated to women’s leadership globally. She led the CEDPA governance committee, which was also responsible for succession planning. Cheri is recognized for integrity and inspiration in her leadership.

Danielle Wiley: She received the prestigious GM Chairman’s Award twice and numerous University of Michigan teaching award nominations and accolades. She is dedicated to global education and often speaks on her favorite topics, being international and global superficial homogenization. A native of Detroit, Michigan, Cheri received a BS from the University of Michigan, as well as an MS in Industrial Health Engineering. She was selected as an Alfred P. Sloan fellow and completed her MS in management at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. As I was putting together my list of guests for season three of the Art Of Sway, I reached out to past guests and asked for recommendations. Did they know anyone fascinating who I should chat with? I am so, so grateful that former guest Jeffrey Sanchez Burkes referred me to Cheri. She has had a fascinating career and is currently teaching at the Ross School of Business, helping to guide both undergrads and executives to be better, more effective leaders. As you’ll see, Cheri is a fabulous storyteller, and our conversation was so, so interesting. I can’t tell you how tempted I am to lurk in all of her classes now. Please enjoy.

Danielle Wiley: Okay, well, hi. I’m so glad we made this happen through… We had a couple of illness fits and starts, and I’m glad you’re here, and I’m excited to talk to you. So, of course, you and I have chatted and I know all about your interesting background and kind of your path to where you are. But if you could fill the listeners in, I’d love for you to share how your really interesting career started and how your path to where you are at today.

Cheri Alexander: Well, first of all, Danielle, thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to talk to you again. Like most people, career trajectory is not very straight. I tell that to my students all the time. But I was on my way to medical school, and I got pregnant, a very happy accident and realized I could not really go to medical school and 24/7 be in a hospital while I was a resident and whatever. So I said, I can be a doctor anytime in the future. So I worked with one of my professors that I had been doing research with and he helped me to get into a master’s program in industrial environmental engineering. And as soon as I was done with that and had this beautiful little girl, I started my career with General Motors. And I went from engineering for the first four years, and then someone anointed me a high potential. And from that time on, every two and a half to three years, I was moved, and I moved around the world for GM 11 times.

Danielle Wiley: Wow.

Cheri Alexander: And got to learn the world and be in the world. And become a global citizen of the world. And I worked in manufacturing and engineering and quality, and a lot of time in human capital, HR, and eventually became the vice president of International Operations HR and had 52 countries of people to worry about. And then I finished my career there as the president of the General Motors University. And then I decided to retire and come to teach at the University of Michigan for only two years. And that was about 14 and a half years ago.

Danielle Wiley: Yeah. So much for making plans about life. I think it often has other ideas for us.

Cheri Alexander: Totally.

Danielle Wiley: And so you are a professor in the Ross School of Business, which is quickly becoming our favorite pool to find great guests. I was introduced to you by Jeffrey Sanchez Burkes, and I just… Talking to professors in general is one of my favorite things to do on this podcast, and being in Ann Arbor Ross holds a special place. But one of the things that when we first met that you spent a lot of time talking to me about was the various students that you mentor. And it was really clear to me that that’s something that’s very near and dear to your heart and very special to you. It’s clear to me that you get so much yourself out of nurturing the careers and just kind of the life trajectories of others. And so I’d love to just hear a little bit more about why that role appeals to you and what you get out of it and how special that’s been for you. Well,

Cheri Alexander: Well, you’re absolutely right, Danielle. I love my students. Since I came to Ross, I have taught undergrads, MBAs, master of management, and a lot of executives through our executive education. In fact, Jeffrey and I were teaching just yesterday together with a group of executives. But I would say I really tried to focus on undergraduates. They’re my absolute favorite. They’re full of life. They haven’t yet got the patina of all the things that happened to us in life on them, and they’re open.

Danielle Wiley: What a nice way… That’s a nice way to word it.

Cheri Alexander: Yeah. They give to me much more I think, than I give to them. They keep me young. They keep me thinking about the world. They think so much about our future, and they are a group of students now who really want to exhibit all of the qualities of leadership to be able to make a positive difference in the world through business, which happens to be our mission. And they’re just so focused on learning as much as they can so they can go out there. And we just have a really great group of students that… Well, you know from research, when you give to others, the level of endorphins go up in your body. So they’re making me much happier all the time. And so because of them, I’m able to continue to contribute.

Danielle Wiley: I love that. It’s just always a delight for me when I can take on that role of mentor, and it’s always been at work. And I have this kind of jealousy of professors who get to take on that role more frequently, because for me, it’s happenstance. You’re putting yourself in the path of that which is… And you’re right, it is an endorphin rush. And if you read about AA or… One of the things you have to do is give back to others because it is so helpful to yourself.

Cheri Alexander: Absolutely. We’ll have to get you to come teach [inaudible 00:09:29].

Danielle Wiley: Yes. Second career, third career. I feel like I’m on my 10th career by now. So one of the ways that you teach not just in person at Ross, but you are in the process, or you’re working on your fourth Coursera. You might have finished it by now because I know we had some delays, but you’re working on your fourth course on Coursera, and I know that the three previous ones have been super well received. It’s really a modern… I think a lot of us now kind of have gotten used to online learning, but it really is a modern way of reaching and influencing people, and it’s so neat to me that anyone can go in. And if you audit it, it’s totally free. And here you are sitting and taking a class with one professor, two professors from… Both of my kids are going to be students there next year, so I’ll say the best public university in the world.

Cheri Alexander: Yes, absolutely.

Danielle Wiley: And it’s totally free and you can take advantage of it. What are your thoughts on this medium and reaching other people and just the global reach that you have now through the internet and through tools like Coursera?

Cheri Alexander: Well, you said it perfectly, Danielle. We are able to reach a global audience, and the first course I did, I believe it’s over a quarter of a million people have been able to see that first course. And the courses that I have done with Jeffrey, Jeffrey and I have talked extensively about our ability to reach so many people throughout the world. That’s what makes online learning such a wonderful thing. But if you asked me, “Do you like to teach that way?” I would say I much rather have the students in the class with me. I can, in fact, see their faces. I can read their body language. I can make sure that I’m connecting with them, they are taking with them what I hope they will inculcate into themselves. I really, really love… At Ross for instance, we are the creators of action-based learning way back in the eighties. That’s a long time ago. And what it was was to learn by doing. And learning by doing is… 70% of our development is done by learning through doing.

Cheri Alexander: So I really prefer that method, but you can’t reach the audience, and you can’t make a positive difference in the entire world without this medium. And this medium has allowed us to be able to reach thousands and thousands of people, and that makes me very happy.

Danielle Wiley: A big part of me was so thrilled to be able to have access to this course and be able to do it, but I was just saying to someone this morning, I spent so much time on Zoom and so much time in this cyber world where I’m having to stare at myself while looking at you and getting distracted and kind of have a headache. And it’s so difficult. And so someone had asked if I was participating in a virtual conference next week, and I thought, man, I can’t think of nothing worse than participating in a virtual conference for an entire week. It’s very tiring. And I do think you lose something not having that in-person element there.

Cheri Alexander: I agree with you.

Danielle Wiley: Yeah. Well, I’ll have to come in. I can sneak in and audit in person since I’m in town.

Cheri Alexander: Absolutely.

Danielle Wiley: So I’m in the process. It’s taking me a long time because I have a lot going on in my life, but I’ve been taking the emotional intelligence course that you created with Jeffrey, and been taking a ton of notes and learning so much. And one of the things that really struck me within the course, and you can tell this is from the beginning because I’m making my way very slowly, the difference between how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you is so interesting to me. And I had taken through… We had hired this consultant and we did this self-assessment. It was like a self-assessment, and then you sent the same quiz or group of questions to someone who works for you, someone who’s at your level, and someone who you report to or is above you in some way. And it was fascinating to me to see the difference in perception.

Danielle Wiley: There were things that I was kind of beating myself up over that you could tell it was nowhere on the radar of other people. You could see the impact of how you present yourself to those above you, that they get this kind of rosy picture of who you are versus those reporting to you. It was kind of all over the place. And the one thing that really remained true throughout was that my self-perception was just completely off track from how anyone viewed me. So I just would love to hear your thoughts on that and how that kind of misalignment of perception can impact how we navigate through the business world, and how maybe becoming aware of that can change for the better, how you manage others, how you lead, how you conduct yourself.

Cheri Alexander: Well, the best word that you used was navigation. And in order to be able to navigate life, as well as the business world, your self-awareness is a critical foundational element for the level of success that you’re going to gain. And I’d have to really go back far two psychologists back in the fifties. So this is in the timeframe that I must have been an infant. They were working on self-awareness already. And what they came up with, they called, this very funny name, the Johari Window, and it came from their names, Joe Luft and Harrison Ingham. Wow, I’m really digging deep here. And I have to tell you that what they wanted to show, and they showed it in a picture of a window with four pans in it. And one of the pans was in fact the open space, and another space was the blind spot. And then there was the unknown space that nobody knows about, and also the hidden area, the hidden area that you put on, the facade that you are doing.

Cheri Alexander: But what really they came up with was you want to grow the open space. You want to take feedback, be open enough to listen to feedback about what others see in you. And you don’t want them to just see when you’re not so great, but when they see you at your best. That’s why I believe asking people for feedback when you are showing your best is a way that you can recreate that best. And just like you said, you were displaying behaviors that you didn’t know you were displaying. So you were able, through that assessment, 360 assessment, to be able to grow that open space. And that’s what true leaders need to be able to do, to be confident enough to open their brains, to listen well, and to hear what others see. Now, you might say, “Hey, but sometimes they see things that aren’t really true,” or “I don’t believe what they’re saying.”

Cheri Alexander: And if you listen really closely, there’s a shred of evidence and truth in everything they say. And if we’re open enough to hear it, we’re open enough to grow that open space and become much more self-aware. And through that self-awareness, we can navigate life and business careers.

Danielle Wiley: So this is not a question I shared with you in advance, so if you need some extra time, go ahead. But just thinking about it, I think when people think about business school and what you learn and what you study, you think about P&Ls and balance sheets and economics. And I know my son wants to study finance and he’s all about the numbers and making as much money as possible. And what’s been so fascinating to me in talking to all of you super smart professors and just being a leader myself is how much of the soft science is in there and how… I studied sociology, and who would’ve thought that would be helpful in running a business, but it actually is. And certainly, it’s helpful to understand your way around a P&L and to look at a spreadsheet and know what you’re doing, but there’s so much about leading a company that is more about that the psychology and the sociology and understanding how cultures work and how people interact with each other. And is that something that’s surprising to your students, to kind of have that epiphany and understand?

Cheri Alexander: It is really interesting that my students usually self-select to my classes because they’ve heard about them in the past, same thing with Jeffery’s, because they are learning, through the time that they’re with us, that they can do all of those what are supposedly the hard skills of the math, the P&L. But they realize, through the extracurricular activities and the clubs, the business clubs and the processes that we’re teaching them, that they can’t do anything without people. In order to be able to move a business forward, leaders need to create visions, and they have to turn around and make sure people are following them. If they don’t, they will lose and not be able to implement. It is what normally people call the soft side, which is in fact the hard side. And we really need to help these young people realize that as long as they knock the skills down with the finance and technology and operations, which happened to be my favorite class in business school, once you get there, you in fact can move the company forward.

Cheri Alexander: Danielle, this may be too long of a story, but I will tell you that when I moved from engineering to labor relations, I thought I had screwed up a design. Turns out that isn’t why I got transferred, but that’s another story. But one night in labor relations, I was in my office, it was late in the evening and my boss’s boss’s boss walked past my office and said, “Ms. Alexander, do you have a few minutes for some feedback?” So as a good leader, he knew that you always have to ask somebody. Are you ready to hear some feedback? Well, I’d never been in his office, and I’d never really talked to him one-on-one. I’d been at the bargaining table where he was the lead bargainer during our negotiations, but my heart was beating outside my chest as I followed him to his office. And I walked in this huge office with a table and a big desk, and he looked like Tom Selleck. He was very tall and dark. And he offered me a seat and I sat down.

Cheri Alexander: And I looked at him, at least I think I looked at him. And he said, “Do you know what you look like when you walk down the hall?” And I was like, “What? I think I just walked down the hall.” And he got up out of his seat and he put his hands behind his back and he looked down at his shoes and he started walking back and forth faster than you can imagine, fast like I walked in the factory. And I was overwhelmed. He went back and he sat down, and he said, “You need to pick up your head. You need to smile at people. You need to take an interest in other people.” He also had been an engineer, and he said, “You got to quit looking at your shoes, because someday, I think you can sit in this chair.” And truly, he was the beginning of teaching me that interpersonal skills were my ticket. And truly, they are for all leaders.

Danielle Wiley: So this, it’s actually… I’m so glad you told that story because I think it’s a great segue to what I wanted to talk to you about next, which is specifically women as executives and women rising up through the workplace. So you, as you said, were very high up in General Motors yourself, and you worked closely with Mary Barra who’s now the CEO, as we all know. Do you think… I’ve been doing a lot of… I’ve been playing around with a friend of mine about writing a book about how neuroscience impacts women in the workplace, and I’m just really curious to hear your thoughts about climbing the corporate ladder as a woman.

Danielle Wiley: And just to clarify, this is not necessarily about external forces like sexism and stuff that we all know about and we can’t necessarily overcome quickly, but… So one of the research pieces that was really fascinating to me that my friend Mary shared with me is that as children, girls possess extended attention spans, superior verbal and fine motor abilities and greater social proficiency, and these superior skills lead to them being praised for being neat, calm, obedient, and compliant, which can then condition them to want to please as adults. I can’t help but thank this, it has an impact on how we conduct ourselves in the workplace. And there are many elements of neuroscience like that affect women differently than men that can impact us. So just curious to know, having major way through the ranks and been among others who did so as well as women, do you think this impacts us? What are your thoughts here?

Cheri Alexander: Well, I believe that women, through the qualities that you just expressed, women have superior, in general, interpersonal skills, the ability to listen, the ability to multitask. We do it well because we have to and to take care of everything in our lives. Those neuroscientific things, I think, can make us even better leaders. I think that among those things, they can, in fact, cause us to step back and be quiet and be good girls. But if we turn them in the right way, we can use them to succeed even more. And I think we can succeed even more through developing those relationships, which are very important to be able to go forward. As I listen to the things that my friend Mary Barra says, you cannot make friends when you need them. You have to have them ahead of time. And I have always remembered her saying that because it has served her well. It always served me well.

Cheri Alexander: The relationships, the connections, the networks that we build as women can in fact be that boost above. But I think going up in organizations is hard for men and women, and there’s lots of things that all of us have to do in order to succeed. The most important thing though is to do the job you have superbly. In fact, be even better than you are expected to be on the job you are in. I never thought about the next job. I was always happy in the one that I had. Not to say that every job wasn’t super great. It wasn’t. But for most of them, do the job well that you’re in. And if you have the ability to execute and you have the learning agility to triangulate everything around you and all the experiences that you have had in the past, and you aspire to go up and are engaged in the work and the company that you work for, with the emotional intelligence that you have, you, in fact, can succeed in climbing the corporate ladder if that’s what you want, if you decide that’s what you want.

Cheri Alexander: Because those are the five things that I’ve seen in top talent. Ability, agility, aspiration, emotional intelligence, and engagement are critical to moving up in the world.

Danielle Wiley: I love it. You’ve named a bunch of the values of our company, so I’m like, oh, good, we’re on the right track. Agility is our number one. Nothing stays the same. To start any business or any initiative and think it’s going to just remain the way it is without needing some kind of pivot, if not multiple pivots at some point, you can’t be rigid.

Cheri Alexander: No, change leadership is critical to moving.

Danielle Wiley: Speaking of… You’ve given me all my segues. You’re like the perfect guest. So speaking of change, you changed careers midlife. Well, actually, multiple times. Changed career paths from medical school to engineering, and then from engineering to labor relations, and then from corporate life at General Motors to professor at University of Michigan. What are your thoughts on making big changes like that, or what advice do you have for someone who has been doing something for a very long time and maybe see something else for themselves, or feels stuck where they are or… What have you learned? What advice do you have to share?
Cheri Alexander (28:41):
Cheri Alexander: I have learned that you have to be brave, and I’ve learned that you should say yes more than you say no. My husband would be the first to say that every time I got moved, every couple of years, I’d come home and I’d say, “I can’t do that job.” And he would say, “Oh, come on. You’ve done every other one. Why can’t you do this one?” And I can remember one time when my boss, who was the plant manager of an amazing plant, he quit to go start another factory for another company. And I was called from headquarters and they said, “You have to give him an exit interview.” And this was my boss. I really liked him, and I had to take his car keys away and call him a cab because he had just quit. And I was a little nervous about that. He was also a friend.

Cheri Alexander: And then the executive vice president said, “And make sure to tell him that he can come back at any time.” And I said, “Oh, okay.” And then I was about to hang up, and this is a drop the mic moment, he said, “And now you’re the plant manager of the factory.” And the first thing in my head was, “I can’t do that job. I’ve never been a plant manager of the factory that is 6,000 people in it.” And it was probably the best job I ever had.

Danielle Wiley: That’s amazing. My second day on the job at a big PR agency I was at, and that alone was a big job for me. I had never done anything like that. And day two, my boss went out on unexpected medical leave and they put me in charge of the whole department. Among the things I had to do on that second day was fire someone, which I had never done before. I was asked to comment on the P&L. I didn’t know what P&L meant. I had to Google it. But I learned so much, and that job became the foundation of this company that I started. And I think our first instinct is often to underestimate ourselves, but it’s amazing what you can do when you’re thrown into a situation and you are often surprised at how much capability you actually have.

Cheri Alexander: You’re exactly right. We underestimate how fabulous we can be.

Danielle Wiley: A generation that I think does not often underestimate themselves is Gen Z. I have two kids in Gen Z and spend a lot of time with them, obviously, and kind of observing others in this generation and am always amazed at how brave they are and how they see so much possibility in the world and take these crazy, brave steps, and at the same time have these phenomenal boundaries for themselves and self-awareness and dislike of labeling themselves and labeling others and just this kind of innate sense of the flexibility of the world and their space within it, and their potential within it. I will admit that I’m somewhat biased because my children are in this generation and I think they’re terrific. But as a professor and someone who… I know you’ve told me that you love working with the undergraduates, actually you said it in this podcast episode too, because there’s just so much possibility in them, but they don’t have that patina, they’re not jaded.

Danielle Wiley: But what do you think we’ll see in the workplace as this generation starts to take over and we all retire and move on to our second, third, whatever in life? How do you think that… They’re just such a different generation. I’m just curious what you think we’re going to, how the world’s going to change, how the business world’s going to change as they take over?

Cheri Alexander: I think that the business world is already changing as a result of the shifts in our culture. And I think everything that has happened to them, from the time they were infants in the 2001 timeframe, they learned faster. And with the technology, they’ve also been exposed to a lot more. They also haven’t had all of the experiences that other generations have had, and a few things have been left out, I would say. So it’s always a question that I have for them. When they’re out there and they think they can do everything, is to say, have you thought of X if Y were to happen? Because sometimes they don’t look at all of the possibilities. They’re looking at the possibility that they have glommed onto and are very excited about, and they don’t look around at perhaps there are other things that could happen. And so I’ve already seen it in the workforce at Ross, that we have very brave young people and they think they can do X, Y, and Z.

Cheri Alexander: And because of not having all of the experiences, they’re running up against our generations that want to put them down. And I think it’s going to take our generations, the generations before this one, to help guide, mentor, coach, and listen, because they have some great ideas and they have the ability to use technology in ways that we haven’t used it yet. And so I think it’s going to take give and take on both sides of the age equation to be able to work together to make the world a better place. But I am optimistic that their bravery, that their way of looking at their lives and segmenting and navigating life in a different way is going to make the future a bit better. I hope that, because I hope that for climate change. And listening to all of the innovation that they are pushing forward with in that space, I think if we listen hard, we will together be able to save what’s going on.

Danielle Wiley: Love it. That’s a great note to end on, but I am going to ask you one more question. So this is a question we’re asking all of our guests on season three, and that is I’d love for you to share a woman who has inspired you in your life career.

Cheri Alexander: This is a very hard question, Danielle, for me to answer. All of my mentors in my work… I had eight very close mentors that helped me to attain the career that I had. I have one woman mentor at the Ross School of Business, another professor who has really helped me to navigate that space. But looking at my whole life, the woman who’s influenced my life, it’s may sound funny, but it happens to be my daughter. Because the minute she was born…

Danielle Wiley: I love that.

Cheri Alexander: … I became an adult. I was very young, and all of a sudden, I was thrown into adulthood. And she taught me so much through her life, and she has done so many amazing things in her life that she’s been a role model for me. And she’s now a professor of education psychology. And she, in fact, has helped me to be a better teacher and a better guide for this generation. And her specialty are 17 to 23 year olds, so she has really… Even though I love her more than anything in the whole world, she has probably been the woman who has made my life better and more complete, and allowed me to thrive through working very hard, and not being with her all the time.

Danielle Wiley: I love that. Yeah. Yeah, that was a very special answer. Thank you for that.

Cheri Alexander: Thank you.

Danielle Wiley: And thank you for coming on. And this was great, and I hope we can… If you see me sneaking into one of your classes, you’ll know why.

Cheri Alexander: Oh, yeah, please. In fact, in the fall, Danielle, I’m taking over the global program for Ross. I will be the professor over all the students that go overseas, so I welcome you to come into the classroom and see these amazing students as we get them ready to become global citizens in the future.

Danielle Wiley: I would love that. Well, thank you so much.

Cheri Alexander: Thank you.

Danielle Wiley: Thank you for listening. Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe. Please check back next Monday for a new episode featuring marketing conversations through the lens of influence. I am your host, Danielle Wiley, and this is The Art Of Sway.